All in a day's work !

The following is a conversation in email between Raj and Arun.
... defines productivity in office !!

SeyyuL : Classical Tamil poetry with rules
Pudhukkavidhai : Contemporary tamil poetry sans rules
Yaappilakkanam: The Bible of Grammar for writing good SeyyuL

-------------------------------
Hey try tumblr.com for ur ittiac
rantings. It's a lot easier for
short posts than blogspot.
Check mine out at my usual name.

--Raj C

-------------------------------

What do u mean easier..?I havent seen it
yet, but what
features attract you to it ?All i do here
is to type an email to
arun81.ittiac@blogger.com, the subject
becomes the blogtitle
and body of the mail becomes the content.
- Arun

-------------------------------

I didn't know that you blogged by mail. Tumblr
is easier in the sense you can
add any short text, pic or a quote and it is
characterised as such. Instead of
creating a new post as in a blog. Tumblr is for
small one-liners and stuff but
not for posts the size of paragraphs. I think I
make sense here. What's a
tumblelog?To make a simple analogy: If blogs are
journals, tumblelogs are
scrapbooks. (From their FAQ) Hope they add
posting by email soon. -- Raj C

-------------------------------

ah ok..i get the idea . online scrapbook for my
inner mind crap :)
i use ittiac for everything from essays to
oneliners.
u already know that i have this huge tendency to
become all verbiose and
wordy..
its only recently that I am pushing hard to keep
down to less than a paragraph,
or just a few lines to express an idea (which
resembles a poem without any metering !!)
i dont have ur id in office..can u
gimme ur tumbler url ?
- Arun

-------------------------------

It doesn't matter if you become verbose or suffer from
logorrhoea. You still can use it. There is a
feature in it to include dialogues you may find useful.
Poetry without meter is like taking a bite of
a laddoo only to find a stone in
it.rexmaximus.tumblr.com I haven't written much there. Just
some collections of quotes.- Raj C

-------------------------------

i like the laddu analogy better than other which dont
involve food items. but wotapens when you
take the laddu with the full knowledge that there will
be a few stones in it, just for the fun of it ?
even if come across a stone u spit it out and enjoy the
rest, as if it were a pomegranate filled with
seeds !

- Arun

-------------------------------

Are you aware of the price to pay for eating a laddu filled
with stones?? Sweets by themselves cause damage to
the teeth, and with stones the damage is immediate. In the
case of poetry that translates to ...? I can't imagine.
The stones were meant to indicate the cringes that occur on
reading some lines disguised as poetry. So unless you
are a masochist or a contestant on Fear Factor I don't think
anyone would be willing to eat the loaded laddu. on
second thoughts even the people on fear factor do it for
money. So one has to be a true masochist to eat the laddu.
Another analogy for this would be the tackling of a road
filled with potholes (if that is possible) in a car with broken
suspension.
And from your reply and what you've written in the blog I
take that you are one of those hopeless romantics. Is it
true?? - Raj C

-------------------------------

If im a hopeless romantic, you are one septic sceptic.. you see
you are not able to imagine the pomegranate analogy
while you still on to ur loaded laddu thingy.. one does not
have to be masochist to enjoy a pomegranate or custard
apple ! When there was archaic but rich seyyuL, there is also
easy and enjoyable pudhukkavidhai- and there are
fans for both. And there are people who stop complaining
about the pothole filled roads, get off the track and ride
mountain bikes in rocky terrain.its not a bad idea to rest
your brain sometimes and just listen to the tune in your
heart. and yes, that proves Im a goddamn romantic !!

- Arun

-------------------------------

I get the pomegranate analogy, but I can't accept it as an analogy.
And regarding the masochism, only a masochist can compare a
pebble laden laddus to the sweet seed-filled pomegranates or custard
apple.Archaic seYYul is sweet. pudhukkavithai is just prose
written in a bad structure. Purists still don't accept puthukkavithai
as kavithai. Just because it uses flowery language does not mean
it can pretend to be a kavithai. Poetry has to have a certain rhythm,
just like music. Yaappilakkanam is not a farce. Prose is just
narration a monotone, dull and boring, and puthukkavithai is prose in
a different form.The fans of puthukkavithai certainly are not
the ones who truly appreciate the beauty of poetry. They are the ones
who instead of doing something about the pot-filled roads try
to avoid it altogether and take a difficult path in a rocky terrain.
The fact that ideas originate in the brain and not in the heart does not

allow my brain any rest. Consequently, listening to the tunes of my
heart (of which I believe there is only one septic tune left), is
ruled out. Thanks for confirming that you are a romantic. That
clarified my doubt. And romantics are bound to do something stupid,
so beware!!!


-------------------------------

1. You cant have pebble inside a laddu, unless its the tirupathi-sized
ones.
2. Archaic seyyul is sweet but sleeps in dusty books in library and
thrives in hated tamil school textbooks.
3. The majority of the population who enjoy life are fortunate enough not
to be purists.
4. "Poetry has to have a certain rhythm, just like music " sounds
melodious but maybe you forgot this -
5. Poetry is the spontaneous overflow of powerful feelings: it takes its
origin from emotion recollected in tranquility: the emotion is
contemplated till, by a species of reaction, the tranquility gradually
disappears, and an emotion, kindred to that which was the subject
of contemplation, is gradually produced, and does itself actually exist
in the mind.- WW
6. Yaappilakkanam is not a farce, but is intended only for M.A (Tamil
Literature), and to be left in 'choice' by all other students.
7. The fans of puthukkavithai dont appreciate the beauty of poetry - but
you cannot appreciate poetry or beauty with the brain alone !!
8. In the unknown terrain grows the wild flowers, not in the landscaped
garden on the pothole road.

Forgot to add this - And never underestimate the power of stupid people
!! ;-)

- Arun

-------------------------------

This is interesting...

You cant have pebble inside a laddu, unless its the tirupathi-sized
ones.
>> pebble - poetic license ;-)

Archaic seyyul is sweet but sleeps in dusty books in library and thrives
in hated tamil school textbooks.
>> I pity you for not having a good teacher who would have made you
appreciate the true beauty of seyyul.

The majority of the population who enjoy life are fortunate enough not
to be purists.
>> I think the majority of the population likes its goods clean and new
and shiny, and I believe it does the same for poetry.

"Poetry has to have a certain rhythm, just like music " sounds melodious
but maybe you forgot this -
Poetry is the spontaneous overflow of powerful feelings: it takes its
origin from emotion recollected in tranquility: the emotion is
contemplated till, by a species of reaction, the tranquility gradually
disappears, and an emotion, kindred to that which was the subject of
contemplation, is gradually produced, and does itself actually exist in
the mind.- WW
>> I think you are missing the point here. The whole idea behind
recollection in tranquility is to put it in a form so that people who
read the
poem can feel the emotion the poet originally felt. To do this, the
emotions have to be written following the rules of grammar and
semantics.

Yaappilakkanam is not a farce, but is intended only for M.A (Tamil
Literature), and to be left in 'choice' by all other students.
>> Again I pity you that you didn't have a good thamizh teacher.
yapplilakkanam : poet :: design rules : IC design engr.

The fans of puthukkavithai dont appreciate the beauty of poetry - but
you cannot appreciate poetry or beauty with the brain alone !!
>> It is the brain that recognizes the characters, understands what they
are and interprets the meaning of the poetry. How come it
cannot appreciate the beauty of it??

In the unknown terrain grows the wild flowers, not in the landscaped
garden on the pothole road.
>> Wild flowers are what inspired the emotions in the poet. He
recollects them in tranquility and presents it as a landscaped garden
for
the others to enjoy. Potholed road is quoted out of context here :-)

>>Forgot to add this - And never underestimate the power of stupid people
!! ;-)

Power should never be given to stupid people!! That is very dangerous.

"A little learning is a dangerous thing; drink deep, or taste not the
Pierian spring: there shallow draughts intoxicate the
brain, and drinking largely sobers us again."
-- First used by Alexander Pope (1688 - 1744) in An Essay on Criticism,
1709

--Raj C

-------------------------------

I not know any grammar
Id smash it with a hammer
I care not abt iambic meter
Id rather hide in a volcanic crater
But spontaneous outbursts i write
disguised as little poems thats not right ! :)

I did have teachers who helped me appreciate the beauty of seyyul back
in school and still do. but most people didnt, and still dont.but that
form of illiteracy does not prevent them from enjoying pudhukkavidhai.

"To do this, the emotions have to be written following the rules of
grammar and semantics" - have you ever tried writing a poem? I am not
well-versed with the rules of grammar, and not so endowed with flowery
vocabulary agreed,but by the time you try expressing your deeply felt
emotion with richly carved lines, and meter and rhyme and whatnot, I
always tend to lose a lot of steam attached to the emotion, which was
the reason I started writing in the first place - its no more a
spontaneous outburst- it becomes apainstaking manipulation.

Poetry :Art (not related to)IC Design : Science
(relationship quoted out of context)

Brain is the seat of intelligence, and heart is the seat of
emotion/feelings (poetic license) though biologically we know neither is
completely true, because nobody knows EXACTLY whats happenning in our
brains.

And wild flowers in a landscaped garden no more excite the senses as
well as they do in the wild..Seeing the flower on the treks to
Kinabalu, and seeing the orchid in Singapore botanical garden is not the
same.

But you see..even some Stupidity can still be interesting.. ... (as you
have rightly observed below!! ) "This is interesting..."

- Arun

-------------------------------

> I not know any grammar
> Id smash it with a hammer
> I care not abt iambicmeter
> Id rather hide in a volcanic crater
> But spontaneous outbursts i write
> disguised as little poems thats not right ! :)

Poet or not, you'll make a good rap singer. Couldn't help laughing out loud at
this.

>
> but by the time you try expressing your deeply felt
> emotion with richly carved lines, and meter and rhyme and whatnot, I
> always tend to lose a lot of steam attached to the emotion, which was
> the reason I started writing in the first place - its no more a
> spontaneous outburst- it becomes apainstaking manipulation.

That is why WW insisted on tranquility. You have to recall the emotion, try to
relive the event and then try to put it into words, the flow of poetry will
occur naturally. I tried to write something like poetry but ended up like
something which fans will call blasphemy. I have them here.

To play or not to play: that is the question:
Whether 'tis easier in the mind to drive
Straight or to the cover full-lengthed deliveries,
Or to lift arms against the outswinging short ones,
And by leaving free them? To stay: to score;

and the original is

To be, or not to be: that is the question:
Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer
The slings and arrows of outrageous fortune,
Or to take arms against a sea of troubles,
And by opposing end them? To die: to sleep;
No more;

~ Hamlet (Hamlet)

I tried a translation too...

Our mothers know not each other,
Our fathers related like strangers
How do I even know thee
Yet our hearts have mingled
Like falling rain on a clay field.

of this

(a tamil poem)
yaayum gnayum ...
..sempula peyalneer pol
ondrodondru thaam kalandhanavae."

from kurunthokai.

I have to say that there is not much emotion is either of them.

> Brain is the seat of intelligence, and heart is the seat of
> emotion/feelings (poetic license) though biologically we know neither is
> completely true, because nobody knows EXACTLY whats happenning in our
> brains.

True but the general opinion is that all conscious (even subliminal) decisions
are made in the brain, though in different parts. Only certain reflexes are
handled outside the brain and in the spinal cord. The reason for the heart
being said as the center of emotion could be because of the increased blood
flow caused by the intensity of the emotion (for e.g. that heart pounding on
the sight of a beautiful female)

>
> And wild flowers in a landscaped garden no more excite the senses as
> well as they do in the wild..Seeing the flower on the treks to
> Kinabalu, and seeing the orchid in Singapore botanical garden is not the
> same.

Of course, a caged bird can only sing sad songs (uh oh I think I'm being
influenced by you now. -- Note to self: Must. Not. Change.)

> But you see..even some Stupidity can still be interesting.. ... (as you
> have rightly observed below!! )

Stupidity can be interesting in the sense watching little kids play is
interesting. But when adults do the same it can only lead to pity and anger.

Waiting for more...

Raj C
--------------------------------

I just decided to stop here !!

-Arun